Episode 7 - A Life Fueled By Love And Courage

Born and raised in China, Nick He immigrated to the U.S. seeking freedom, belonging, and the space to finally be himself. A former Microsoft strategist who turned down an offer from McKinsey to follow his own path, Nick is now the co-founder of GPS Renting, a mission-driven property management company in King and Snohomish County. Alongside his husband Brian, he has built a values-first business with a powerful purpose: sponsoring 100 orphanages around the world. A four-year EO member known for his vulnerability, intentional leadership, and commitment to self-development, Nick continues to inspire through his story of identity, courage, family, and impact.

Note, this podcast features real entrepreneurs sharing real challenges and solutions. No pitches, no sales - just honest conversations about the moments that shape successful businesses.

Aaron: Tell me a little bit about how your life began because that is seminal to who you are today – your journey to the United States and to becoming an entrepreneur.

Nick: I think I always start by telling anybody I meet that I'm always a hundred percent made in China.

I think partially it's because maybe my insecurity about who I am. And I need to put it out there. It's like I have an accent and I think differently. I don't get the jokes. It's because I'm from China – because I’m made in China. That maybe some part I try to protect myself. In that case, it’s if I made mistake, don't think I'm a weirdo.

Aaron: Oh, sure.

Nick: I'm a hundred percent made in China. So I was born there. I was born in a little town. It's actually a little town where Chairman Mao, he grew up.That town doesn't have anything, but because Chairman Mao was from there, he grew up there, the government set up a giant steel factory. So they ship everything from so far away – raw material there, and then there's no market there.

So after they produce it, they ship out to all the different parts. And my grandpa was one of the founding members of that factory. And so, he moved there to help start a factory. I remember my parents talking about when they were young, they were just sleeping on the floor in the factory all the time.

I move around a lot with my parents. When I was little (fourth grade) I moved from that little town (it actually has over a million people). It's a tier four little city in China. And then move from there to Guangzhou, in Southern China near Hong Kong, for education.

Because my parents believe education is very important. That's the only way for me to have a life. I went to college in Shanghai. Then from Shanghai after I graduated, I worked for three years for a German software company called SAP. That opened my eyes because every other week I'm traveling to different countries. After traveling everywhere, I see America is where I want to be because that's smells like freedom and I just like that. And so, I came to America and I went to the East Coast. I went to Duke for my MBA and then after graduation, I came here – to the Seattle area. That was 2009. 

I feel like my whole journey, like you were talking about your traveling around the world, it seems from what I heard, is that you can always be you. But for me, traveling around the world, I can never be me, until I’m here. And then I feel like I'm always immigrant for my whole life that's written. God is there to write that –  “immigrant”. Because wherever I move to, I always feel I'm less to the people there. Like when I move to Guangzhou, I don't speak the local dialect, so people make fun of me. They have a word in Chinese that means that you are just somebody from the villages. You don't understand a thing. So they always use those words and call people who don't speak the dialect. When I moved to Shanghai, oh my gosh. People from Shanghai, they think they're the most fashionable people, richest people in the world.

So they of course look down upon me and I don't speak the dialect. And when I move here, especially when I moved to North Carolina, at first I don't even understand racism until I moved there 'cause in China, I'm the majority race. Even if we have 36 races, but majority is Hun - like 90%. So I understand racism and then I experienced it. That made me feel like, oh yeah, I don't speak the dialect and people, the culture here is very open, direct, aggressive. While I always try to be humble and then I don't speak up. And that's my whole life philosophy is don't speak up, don't step up. Try to be humble. Even if you can do it, let other people do it because you need to be respectful for other people.

Until I move to Seattle, I feel like especially I start to be on the journey of coming out and then I start to tell myself like. Wait a sec. Maybe I come here when I watch gay movies because I am gay. There are a lot of things that I'm hiding. I was not truthful to myself. Maybe there's a mountain here, maybe it's the rain in the wintertime where the sound, it gives me a sense of peace. I can talk to my soul, talk to my heart, and then I feel like for once I can try to have the courage to face me, the real me inside, like the voice I have pushed down for so many years that because of I'm an immigrant, I don't need to think about. But here I don't somehow.

That's also when I travel to 46 states in America. When I was here for my MBA, I traveled everywhere. We drove the car. Seattle was one of my favorite places. So I was very fortunate in 2009 that when the big depression is happening, I was lucky enough to get a job here and then to move here.

Aaron: And so, you came here. You got a job with Microsoft? First McKinsey as a summer intern? Was that in Seattle?

Nick: No, that was not. So, the whole story about McKinsey is that it was actually my first time to say no to something I thought I wanted.

Aaron: Why?

Nick: It's not what I want. It's what other people want. So, I did my summer job because everybody wanted a consulting or banking job. Then, when they go to business school and I want to do consulting. It's so fancy. So I did my summer intern with McKinsey. Actually it's in Beijing. At that time I was flying back there.

It was really fun summer because I was a poor student. Even when I come here to do my MBA, I got a giant student loan over a hundred thousand dollars. Because my parents don't have money back in China. They're just teachers. I need to figure out what to do. And McKinsey definitely paid well and I was asking to transfer to West Coast office.

And then, but after the whole summer there, I realized that's not what I want. It's actually, I don't want to just, work so hard and then without assault that at least that's my feeling.  I was just a little associate work life. Until midnight without any chance for me to see through who I am.

I think at that time my soul tried to save me. It's like you need a breathing room. Like you need some time to thinking about who you are. It's one of the hardest thing to tell them. No, when they send me the offer, and I was lucky at that time to got the offer from Microsoft. I think what sold me on Microsoft at that time.

Driving through five 20, I remember I was staying a downtown hotel. And then go to Redmond to interview. It was very early morning. I do interview for two positions. Then that morning driving through, I just remember seeing the fog and then I suddenly see the city, see the tree. It just that kind of a feeling.

I say, maybe this is where I can walk out by fog. Maybe I can see something and then I see a sand. It's just a sense of peace. Peace in this place. So when they offer my the position, I'm like, hell yeah. I'm going to Seattle. I'm moving here.  And also, that's one thing, all my classmates, my parents, they don't understand why you reject McKinsey.

Aaron: Sure. And then that's the pinnacle of consulting.

Nick: Exactly. But that's one of my practice, I think, is to tell myself it's not what other people want for me, not my parents. You know what society want for me. It's who I what I want. It's different from what I heard you earlier talking about your daughter.

So young to make the decision about what they. One. The model that they can do hard things, right? Like for me, I never grew up that way. I just always follow what my parents want me to do, what Chinese society want me to do. So that was my first lesson and that gave me the courage to come out.

 Really to do what I need to do.

Aaron: It's so self-aware and brave though, to know that, particularly at that age, that you don't want the status –  the immediate calling card for everyone else. You just have to say, I am consultant with McKinsey, and you are recognized as at the pinnacle of a profession.

So that's very brave.

Nick: Thank you. I think I'm spiritual now. I believe there's a God somewhere. And then I do believe that God made me gay. That's my sexuality. It actually start to become savior in my life and then to build everything I have today.

Aaron:  And you have a fascinating life today.

Nick: I love it.  I love my life. Today

Aaron: you are an entrepreneur. You are married, you have three children – all daughters.

Nick: Oh my gosh. They're going through a little bit crazy age now. Eight. Eight and nine.

Aaron: Yes. I think all of the ages. My experience, I have two daughters a bit older, 21 and almost 17. Every age is crazy and every age is fantastic. We didn't experience the terrible twos or the terrible threes or anything like that. It was just there's some craziness right now. Mostly things are really interesting.  And wonderful.

Nick: Yeah, definitely every day is learning like that.

And then I enjoy, I feel I'm very blessed

Nick: That I have the ability. To live here and then to have the chance to really have three daughters with my husband, Brian. Even when we built the business, I never thought that I'm going to build business. I was not entrepreneur. My parents are teachers.

And then I came here. Most of my Chinese friends who came here, they're all working in big corporate. Sure. Because that's what, how we can survive here. It's I feel like I don't need to fit in, but sometime you need to fit in a culture. Now I'm always looking where I belong. I belong to a place I do think I belong to Microsoft at that time, and that's such a wonderful company.

Provide everything I need after so many years after I come out, after being with Brian. I just want to build a life. And then because he and I are from so different families, like my family are always so boring. We don't even drink. Smoke during our EO forum dinner or something.

I'm the one never drink. I'm always a cheap day.  And then we are planning our forum retreat now and then to Cabo, I said I'll be the Destin driver to everything. I don't even enjoy drinking. So for Brian, like he grew up in a place that. It's a broken family, it's like there are a lot of drug, alcohol and all those things involved.

And then for me, how we step in real estate is literally about also, that's what we do. We do real estate, investment, property management. We try to find something to do together. Some upon the website called MLS online, right?  And then we're just like, there's a house that maybe we can buy in Northgate.

Maybe we should just. Take a look. We don't have a lot of common ho hobby. He likes classic cars and not used to like computer games. So different, right?  I do something different. And then we saw the house and then we like the house makes sense because it end up our mortgage $900 and then we live downstairs for free.

We rent out upstairs for $1,500. So we were like, we cash flow $600 a month. It's so amazing. But start from there. We're just like. Oh my gosh, this is something we should do. And then to build our life together to pay that. My student loan at that time is $150,000 student loan that I need to pay back.

So that's what we just started to do. Save up every single money like. At that time I was driving a Beamer because while I was in student loan, I saw all the other rich Chinese classmate, they all drive a fancy car. Sure. So I got along another loan and then we got a Beamer. Brian was like, what's wrong with you?

Just sell it. And then so I saw the Beamer on Craigslist, and then I bought a coroll. Then I, we start to shop at, I used to always try to buy name brand, and I realized those things didn't define me. I started to, at that time, save money to try to buy in value village Goodwill.

And really try to save every single time.

We don't even s. Shop at Home Depot, we go to the Habitat for Humanity. They have those kind of the stores  Can buy used things and miss those days. And then it's like when we start to looking for individual property to buy, try every single way to save a single dime that built our life. And then also build a business.

That we treasure today. We start all start from how we want to build a life. That's my relationship with Brian.

Aaron: Before we continue, I want to tell you about the community that made this podcast possible. The Seattle chapter of EO, that's Entrepreneurs organization. It's not networking, it's not selling to each other.

It's real entrepreneurs sharing real challenges and solutions. If you have a business that does at least a million a year in revenue and you're curious about joining a community that gets what you're going through. Check out EOCF. You have an identity that seems to be entirely authentic and not focused on status, but you come from a culture that stereotypically Yep.

Is understood to be very status oriented. Oh yeah. That a lot of the status comes from the things that people can see.

From brands, titles, that kind of thing. Yep. How have you managed to strip away those things that society imposes on you and to live as authentically as you do?

Nick: I think that's a gift for being ho homosexual being my sexuality, to be honest.

I feel like growing up in a culture that is so community driven, everything is about how you fit in the community. It's not about your individualism. And in the community there's a status and then, so for me to really be able to tell my parents like. Actually, I'm gay. Maybe your friends will start hating you.

You may lose your job and then you don't know how you are gonna fit in. It's that kind of thing. That breakthrough the community that I'm the outlier. Maybe, I'm the one that completely will be banned from the community, but have a courage to do that. And then also to see the Chinese community is actually changing, but I don't know that from before, right?

Before I'm just like, it's either survive or I'm going to. I don't know, die. That's literally my feeling.  Because that was in 2010 when I first realized I may be gay.

I start to go on Craigslist, I start to, there's a section called Man Seeking Man. I try to start to seeking other mans, and then just like today's, I think it's called Grinder, so I start to be on the website and then I also, I think I remember it's the first week I also went to Vancouver.

Then, because I want to go to the gay bar to meet gays. I feel like if I'm in Seattle, I go to gay bar. What if I run into people.

Aaron: Oh, you might be seen.

Nick: Exactly. Yes. I don't want to be seen.  So all those experience, that's my defining moment that one night I. I went to the gay bar and then I saw the guy, he's from Australia, maybe he's an Ozzy accent or whatever, but seems very sexy.

So I went to the hotel room with him. He tried to have sex and then, but me somehow, maybe with my Chinese culture or something, I think I cannot have sex until I know you or something.

So I start to run away. I start getting so scared. I just remember that was like 3:00 AM. Something. I was walking on the it was August, but it's cold somehow in the evening.

And then walking on the street, I just feel like I'm so helpless. I feel like I abandoned all my culture, everything my parents want for me, because at that time, I don't know how to talk to my mom. I'm my mom, a mommy's boy. I always talk to my mom almost every day.

But moving to Seattle start to realize I might be gay while he, she always ask me about.

Oh, do you have a girlfriend? Sure. She, my, your old classmate, they already have grandkids or something. It always made me feel so bad. It's so I don't wanna talk to her. I woke up that morning at that night, the failed hookup. I'm saying I'm going to find a way out. I'm going to start journal my whole journey.

So I start a private blog online. And then just start writing my journey. And I told myself I am going to, because I always think I'm not good looking enough. That's why I cannot find somebody. There are a lot of insecurity inside that I will find somebody. I'll find my way out. I'll be true to myself.

The next week actually find Brian on Craigslist. Wow. It was, no kidding. So our story, start from there. And then we move in a month later.

And then, but however, the whole journey, that's easy for me for the first step to come out to myself, but now come out to all my friends and my, to my parents.

That becomes something so huge mountain. I need to just abandon what they will think of me. I think that's the fourth thing for me to think. I can only think about myself if I take care of myself. If I don't want to harm anybody with all my good heart, just want to take care of myself, people who love me, they will understand.

They will come around. It took my parents a year but still they came around and that goes through the question you asked about. I think since then, I realized I can create my own. Universe since I was a kid, my mom once told me that I have the sun in me. What a nice thing to say. Yeah, exactly. The peace of sun.

 And in those dark moments, and I think I do. And that I can create my universe, even with Brian, to do our real estate, to raising kids. And then people who want to come around with us will come around and people who want to go, they'll go away and form. Brian in my life because he's white and then so it's a mixed family.

It's like we're not material people and then we just care about the real. Day-to-day thing and that matters to me. And that definitely doesn't include status symbol. I drive Tesla, it's because it's used to use, but it's never about the brand. It's also one thing that's very interesting.

When I was in Microsoft doing research, 'cause I was working on their strategy things that we all try to see what to do, especially target Chinese market. Giving my background. And I was doing a lot of research about how the Chinese software, how they have all the status symbol. Then how to have all the different level system, even in you can imagine like WhatsApp, even the user will have levels and they'll have badges to showcase how much you use, how much you, something to showcase your level.

Sure. Because English society like status is so simple so important and they need to put it everywhere. I think that's why China is one of the biggest luxury market, right?  The goods. I think that fortunate for me and for my kids. I escape from that. To me, that's a curse to really live more true to what I care about.

 A nice coffee that you make.

Aaron: I'm glad it's good.  Thank you. Tell me about your business. Tell me about GPS renting.

Nick: We do property management, residential property management.

Aaron: Starting with your own, it sounds like start with our own. Yes.

Nick: That's how we, one day, one of the owner and he bought at that time we helped people to buy and sell real estate.

 And then and she said, you should start a property management company. Just like how you manage your own. And because she tries so many different property management companies, she's just never happy. She's very picky. She's entrepreneur as well. So that's why I think she's very picky. She want to find a solution.

Really just makes sense.

Nick: That's how we started. I really don't want to start and just don't want to come out. And then, because I think managing my own properties are hard enough and then dealing with tenant issues, dealing with owner issues. A lot of the time it's not. It's logical, it's emotional.

She is going to Maslow's theory, right? Living is a basic need. So everything come out with that. It's could be a funnel, whatever. It's not going well. It goes to your landlord. It's like looking back now, it's almost eight years, I think nine years. And I feel like it's such a blessing that we start this business.

And then because we manage mostly King and Snohomish County mostly single family house or small multi-family. I think 90% is single family. But that's what we invest, have team here. We have team in Philippines. We have a mission. Our mission is sponsor 100 orphanages in the world, and then we have two right now, and then one's in Nepal, one's in Philippines.

What bring joy to me is to give back. Doing this business is very soul crushing to me. Because I want to please people. I'm a people pleaser. Ah. I'm not a business person. I just want to make sure when I'm dealing with you that you are happy.  That I'm really solving your problem. That turned out to be a disaster in running business, especially in property management.

And so after a few years, around five to six years, I started to burn out and then I showcasing my business. I in one year, our Google re review, Google review rating dropped from 4.7 to 4.2. There's no, for a small business like me, it's like the business extension of myself. If I got burned out, the business will suffer.

One of my property in Maui burned two ashes, and then the insurance won't even cover one third of the rebuild cost. So it's just a lot of things all. Getting in. And then we also got into a lawsuit with attending my own property, thank God, other people's situation. So a lot of unfamiliar territories.

And then from, and all very stressful things. All very stressful things. I decide to work on myself, so I hire a mental conditioning coach as a EL member referral. Business coach, just to start to do different exercises. Like triathlon. And through that everything get a little bit better.

Now we got at least one. Google five star review every single day. It's it's really amazing how to turn around the culture, things like that. The other two things still need to solve, but sure. My coach constantly push me and then he said, because he's a super long distance runner, like 240 miles each time, so he always pushed me.

 You think about in the long run, Nick, what matters to you? That's a good question. That really made me to think. What matters to us, right? We're working so hard to build a business. It's our family, those matter to us. And I think I find my answer in my personal life every year.

'cause we have the kids, we always have one family trip, and our family trip is to go to somewhere in a developing country and then to volunteer in an orphanage.

So I've been to different places, Costa Rica, Al Cador. Kenya and just what the first week is always help other people. It is that experience, like every time I step in those orphanage and seeing the kids hand reaching to us, even if we're so strange, we're strangers to them.

It just filled my heart. It's like the first day my kids were born. Like I was in the delivery room. Seeing Phoebe, our oldest of war, I feel that give a lot of purpose to make me feel like what I need to do in this world. That's why our goal is really helping to become the major sponsor for 100 orphanage in the world that really help them.

Why one orphanages? Because I realized traveling through all these orphanages, they all have diverse needs. Some are targeting from after they become a teenager, how to bridge from when they become adult and then to really a fully adult. Some are when they're young and some are disabled. There's so many different reasons, so that give me so much fulfillment.

That what we can do, and then that's actually our business. One of the key thing that we do, our mission is to self-development because we do hard things. Property management and giving back because we want to help the orphans ourselves, our family, our customers, by providing a five star customer service, just crystallize.

To make sure that is what our mission is and then have a vision to really helping those orphans. Oh no. That made me very happy. Yeah, that's our business. So property management, it's not too sexy. We try to make it sexy because I am in tech, I'm from tech, and then I'm very strategic thinking, so I leverage a lot of different technology and everything to make it, not like every other day, property management.

But I think what made me proud of the business is really we have a mission and then that's. What we do every day. One war.

Aaron: So I have two questions out of that. One is about the business. You take a different approach. How are you different from other property management firms? And then I'd like to get back to the mission as well.

Nick: There are a few things. The first thing is a hundred percent alignment because that's how, exactly how my friend Lee, that's her. When she say create a business, just like how I manage my own. So we set up different PO structure, like software, different companies. That PO structure, they manage different portfolios.

So I put my property in all different pods so I can see how my property is doing, how we do the a hundred percent alignment. The key thing is from pricing structure. That's really one thing I see 'cause to a lot of people. Property is a big investment for them. And then most property management company, how we charge is like when you find a tenant, you charge tenant placement fee, right?

When you have the maintenance they charge a maintenance markup. That's all very standard in the traditional property management way. I'm like, why we need to do that? Why I want to do that to my own properties and manage.

There's no tenant placement fee owner. You don't make money. I don't make money.

There shouldn't be any. I believe an incentive works subconsciously. Shouldn't I be helping you to repair more stuff? I just believe incentive works. I want to make sure there's no doubt from how we manage your property.

You don't make any money. We don't make a dime. We're not trying to make a vacant, try to find a new tenant. I'm not saying other people are doing, I just believe in economics 1 0 1 incentive works. I just wanna make sure it's a hundred percent. Alignment. The second one is always a root cause, problem solving, because that's one thing.

Go back to my a little bit culture. I don't want to be disrespectful, but Brian and I, like my husband and I, we always joke about this 'cause we are from different cultures. Like when we have a headache, right? In American way, a lot of Western way, it's oh, let's eat a Tylenol, let's stop the headache.

In China, we never do things like that. We try to understand what's the root cause and so it won't happen again.

So that's the same approach we take on the property management. If there's something leaking or something, what's the root cause of it? Can we troubleshoot it? Try to solve the problem rather than just say the easiest way is completely replace it.

It's the easiest way to do it. Costs a lot of money. It might not be the. Most cost effective. And also convenience way. So that's what I think what we always do to root cost the problem identification, to solve the problem. So we have a lot of guarantees. It's from our service property management.

A lot of the thing we talking about is communication. So if we don't reach out, get back to you in 48 hours, we will give you money. Ah, your management fee. So we have a lot of guarantees like this eviction guarantee things to help to protect the owner because we believe in our service. That's why I think every day we can get at least one.

There's one week we got 26, just two weeks ago. Wow. 26 5 star Google Review. That's amazing. Yeah, so I'm proud of the team and that's why every. Like November, we're going to Philippines again, and this year we'll have a private island. And then so we bring the teammate from different part of Philippines to meet together and our teammate from the United States to go there to learn to celebrate the year to give back.

Aaron: You've described your mission and that you support two orphanages today. What does it take to sponsor an orphanage?

Nick: It's actually not a lot.  It's $10,000 per orphanage, as I'm thinking about $10,000 per orphanage. How much can we do? So like in Seattle it's two months rent, but it helps them so much.

But the orphanage in Philippines, what we do, we help 36 families for their whole year. For their food, they can eat and also for the kids go to school and study. And for Nepal, what we are doing, they're helping the kids. They're staying in the orphanage. But as they grow older, the government has a policy when they turn 16, they need to get out. They cannot be there anymore.

So they'll have housing, don't have anything. So a lot of them marry 50-year-old widow and then to settle, they cannot go to school. They cannot do something. So what we do, we actually help them to build a house. So they don't need to rely on government funding so they can have a place to stay.

And then also we start to do some internship program with them, maybe to help them to try to gain some skill, especially the remote working these days,  What we can do is help them to build some skillset so it's not just about to supply. They can really have a flourished life in the future.

So those are the things that we try to do. Our nonprofit director, she visit Peru this year. Three more orphanages. So we're just figuring out which one we need to sponsor to add to our list. If anybody want to help to join our mission, I'm more than welcome, can we?  Because we can't do this by ourself.

We are a small business. We're running our own, and then it's by believing this mission, I believe in the power of the community. I put that in my signature, in my email. People reach out, like even in my. And my kids' gymnastic, they say this year when they go to the national and regional competition they need to pick a charity.

They picked us!

Aaron: Oh wow. That's amazing.  So you mentioned that you had a mental conditioning coach. And that was an EO referral. When did you join EO?

Nick: Four years ago.

Nick: I think my first retreat was San Diego. That's life changing. I loved that retreat. I loved the Wim Hoff breathing. I still do that every day. I did that this morning.

Aaron: What prompted you to join EO? What brought you to EO?

Nick: I think being an entrepreneur, a lot of times I was lonely. We're dealing with the problems that my husband doesn't understand. My parents don't understand. My employee definitely doesn't understand. My friends don't understand either if I talk to them.

Nick: And then I need to find a community that speak the same language. Also, I think what prompted me to join EO is a vulnerability. I'm a very vulnerable person. I like to open up about who I am.

And my real issues. I don't want to just talk about numbers to show off how big the business is or how much money you make, because I think those things don't matter. It's what we do every day, how many lives we impact. And I feel like the EO member are like that. I have been to a few GLC in Cape Town, right?

And then this year I'm going to EO University in Brazil. I'm so excited. Wherever I go globally, if I meet a EO member, the conversation - so amazing. We go deep so fast.

We're not talking about the fancy cool stuff. Whatever you talk to other people about. We really go deep to things we struggle that we help each other.

I think that comes from the framework, how we do 5% deep dive. From how do you know, the coaching, the open coaching, and then to the plan deep dive. And I think those habit that we do in EO really made us to. Have that kind of the tool set and then also the habit to connect to each other and help each other.

And that's what I love about the EO after four years, and then that's why I refer my other business partner to become EO and she love it. This is her second year.  One thing I also love EO, it really changed me, is it's from my EO member. I start to do microdosing. I haven't done microdosing for one and a half years, but however, through microdosing I start to do journey.

So I've done two journeys. Those are life changer. I do it always on my birthday. It have profound impact on how I think to let me know everything will be okay at the end. To make me see through the trouble. I have the relationship with my younger daughter, youngest daughter. And see how I need to change.

And then to change my motto even from, we can do hard things to, we choose to do hard things. We choose to be uncomfortable. We want to grow. I would never imagine I would be doing something like that in my whole life. I even let my parents try microdosing a little bit. Oh, yes. But I'm scared to do that, to be honest.

 I'm really scared. It's the first time I do it the full journey. I cry 96 times. I want to call ambulance, but it's life changing because I I went through the ego death. I was really, there's no ego. It cut into that. That's a

Aaron: Guided experience, right?

Nick: It's a guided experience.

It is a one-on-one to build up my Hero's Journey song for eight hours. And then I submitted four to five songs. All the others she created, and she's also masseuse. She's just like a very nice grandma. Her name's Randy. Then she should massage you throughout her journey. It's so amazing, but I'm still so scared.

So the second time I went there this year. At my birthday, right before my birthday, I was so scared. I don't want to do it. I did it either way. And then after that I integrate. I figure out, I still learn a lot of things. I don't know what I'm doing, what next year, because I'm too scared of it. I realize my first time create trauma in me.

But I still put it on the calendar. It's an option.

Aaron: What was your inner monologue when you joined EO? When you came to EO, and how has it changed? What were you saying to yourself, saying about yourself when you joined? Eo? Has that changed?

Nick: It changed dramatically.

Because at first, naturally I want to compare myself to other people. Is it based on the revenue? Is it based on how much money I make? Is it based on the status? It's still, there's things like that, right? It's do I fit in? It's that always that kind of the feeling. Do I have a, have a say when I say something?

'Cause maybe he or she run a much bigger business experience, way more life experience. But after four years, I don't feel that way. I really feel belong. I don't care that person is a hundred million dollar business. Sure. It doesn't matter. We come in the same  We are all equal members. We all contribute.

We all go deep because we all have so many. Problems that we need to solve and we can help each other.

Aaron: And the overlap among the issues is so fast. Yes. Yep. We all think the same things. Oh my gosh. 

Nick: That is one thing I also learned about the deep dive. At first, when I jump in when I come in right, I'm always thinking about, it's the deep dive.

It's helping that person.

But

as I get to do more and more in our monthly deep dive, I realize that's truly a gift for everybody. Whatever that person share the struggle. I always have takeaway from those struggles that person share, even if we help that person. I feel like I'm very blessed to take back a lot of learnings myself.

Aaron: I am too. EO is an interesting learning context in that the, in a typical classroom, in a conventional classroom, or even if you go to a conference or a seminar, you're learning in the moment and you're aware, ah, that's interesting. I can use that. And EO particularly the forum experience for me anyway, not infrequently, I might leave forum thinking I'm not, I don't really know what I got from that.

And I won't know for maybe a few days. Or a week or two. Until. Something I've internalized it. I've had time to reflect on it. Yep. And realize it's resonance and relevance for me.

Nick: Yeah, I can agree more.  Especially I feel like it is somebody, it is my, sometimes it's my blind spot 'cause I don't even know how to.

Interpret it what other people share. 'Cause when I share some story, I have 30% resonate. I am like, oh, I totally resonate this.  But actually because it's active listening, because every single cell phone is like $50 in our forum. The thing, so I'm so pay attention to it.

So I actually capture the other 70%, but that 70% has a way to help me to open my blind spot and say, oh wow. That's some other things I didn't even. Expect and that need time. Yeah. To really let me to process, to understand what it is and then to make it useful for me. So  Very well said. Thank you for sharing that

Aaron: perspective.

Yeah, of course. What has EO enabled for you?

Nick: I think it's actually going to my mission for my business. It's like self-improvement, self-improvement to me. I feel like EO has putting me on a journey to accept that I'm not perfect today. Be okay with it to know I will be okay at the end because they're all different business and different business cycle that you can see and all the struggles, even life cycles.

To start to build a path that I can be in charge to understand I want to grow, I want to self improve, and then have a group of people who it's so wise and then I can try to borrow a lot of wisdom from. I feel is, that's a life journey that helped me to feel so hopeful. Can feel comfortable.

You walk that journey.  I feel like that's what yo

Aaron: does to me. You brought a book for me, two dads and three girls. Which is a fascinating title. Tell me about the book and what others can get from it.

Nick: Why I want to write this book is because. At that time we were still selling real estate.

When we were selling real estate, a lot of client, they saw our family. At that time we had three kids. Our youngest daughter, they were born in 2017, and then they were like, oh my gosh, you are so lucky. Like your parents accept you, that you have a beautiful family. In my mind, I'm just like, I need to write my hardship.

I need to let people know you need to choose hard things. And then to get beautiful things. It's not, choose comfort today and then to give up what's beautiful tomorrow. That plan is seed to write this book, I think.  And that what I decide to write the exact moment. I practice one thing called Miracle Morning.

So Miracle Morning, this guy Hal, he has a millions of followers and then people all practicing the Miracle Morning with him in the morning. He has an event in San Diego called Best Year Ever.

It's a two day event. Brian and I both went there. He end with a guided visualization with 400 people to five, four to 500 people to be talking about what footprint we want to left in this world when we die.

That's the whole thing of the visualization, but there are a lot of details. From that visualization, I feel like I need to tell my story. Because I feel like human society is a way that. We pass down stories, we can use stories to encourage people to build hope or scare people.  And I think stories is a power we pass down to our kids, to the, even the next generation.

I want to tell my story and then the story to don't give up. To choose hard things. To always live with love and courage. And at that moment, on the flight back, actually at Asprey, I said, I think maybe I want to write my stories. And then Brian said, are you sure? And I said, yes, I think so. Every morning I lock myself in my office at 5:00 AM in the morning.

'cause I do miracle Morning and then, so I just write write and then I finish it in one month. One month. Not the finished product of that took a long time

Aaron: still though. Alright, so I'll hold, we'll include this in the notes for the show. But this is not a small book. One month.

That's incredible.

Nick: But it is really those kind of a pressure pot.  'cause I Pressure cooker. Pressure cooker. Exactly. 'cause I feel I've been living that. I never really tell my story. Ah, it just come out so fast and then it's. Reassemble. How sure. Going to be, and there are a lot of memory.

I forgot my brain tried to protect me. Yeah. So there are so many mornings Brian running to me and then see me crying like crazy. And then at the end he said, what happened? I said, oh, I just remember that. And then it's like that's what happened,  So that's what prompt me and what triggered.

To write this story. So this story is about courage and love.

And I think it could be for everybody, but specifically for people, it's separate to two parts. The first part is two dads, second part is 2003 girls.  So the first part is all about how I came out and how I face my, myself, and then my family.

And then to build a life that Brian and I are so different. And then the second part, it's about how we build a family. So there are a lot of tips, our process in service. So it's a completely two different journey. I shamelessly steal a shoe dog because Oh  Shoe dogs. Yeah, that's one of my favorite books.

Yeah, that's a great book. 

Aaron: It was interesting to me to hear you describe being in the room for the birth of one of your daughters. I have vivid recollections of being in the room for the births of my daughters, and I also remember it as just a. Profoundly catalytic moment. Just like a light switch moment.

 Where the love is instantaneous and overpowering. It is everything and it shifts perspective. Yep. And I've been curious about surrogacy and about what that might feel like if it were a different biological process. If it were this instead. And it's fascinating to hear. It is the same

Nick: to me, it is the same.  And that's like I always remember my previous manager at Microsoft, her name's Jill, she's. One of the best manager ever. She always said one thing, she feel like after she told me after she had the kid, she have her daughter and then she feel like she always have a piece of heart out there walking around. I feel like that day happened in the delivery room. Yeah, absolutely. It's like part of my heart is out now.

Aaron: You have described periods in your life during which you have had to navigate situations where you didn't feel welcome – didn't feel like you belong. You came to Seattle. You feel more like you belong here. You joined EO. Has EO been a place where you feel comfortable? You feel welcome? You feel like you belong? What about it feels good? What about it doesn't feel good?

Nick: I feel like EO is over-the-top supporting you to be who you are, even if you fail.It's that kind of feeling.

Even in one of the events I went to, it's a regional event and I don't think it did a good job compared to other regional event. But however, even in that situation, how much encouragement cheers that you member give it to people, it just so fabulous for the people who organize it rather than it's oh my God, it's so bad.

Or something like that. But it's really giving their encouragement. And that comes from one of my favorite thing you is about yield talk. And that is encourage everybody go to give a yield talk.

And then to share your story. Every time I hear EO talk, especially in those regional events, it's fascinating.

The encouragement from audience.  Who are all entrepreneurs. Just give unconditional support, and that is what I like, what I feel belong rather than I need to feel being judged.  Even the comedy show.  I just feel like six of us really don't know what we get ourself into.  What they say.

But I feel like this is a safe environment when it, I feel like you do a lot of things like this.  I said, oh, sign up for this and then you'll be a good experience. If I know it's a comedy show, I'm not gonna sign up. Because I, if I'm gonna stand up comedy, but while we all sign up  And we all go to do it and then the whole crowd just cheer for us.

It's, I feel safe to try new things.  And then the yo member will no matter what to support me. It's that kind of feeling. It's like family feeling, even if I don't know you in person, but I know no matter what, you support me.  I really enjoy that feeling.

Aaron: Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I've loved talking with you. This has been a privilege.

Nick: Thank you for giving me a chance to share the story. Talking about love and courage matters a lot to me. It's been wonderful.