Episode 12 - Growth, Grit, And Perspective
With Andy Liu
Join host Aaron Burnett as he sits down with Andy Liu, Co-Founder of Unlock Venture Partners to explore the lessons behind his entrepreneurial journey—from launching a tech startup during the dot-com boom to navigating failure, finding product-market fit, and exiting through a multibillion-dollar acquisition.
Andy shares how early missteps, cash burn, and building a product no one wanted led to a powerful realization: sales and customer conversations are the true unlock for growth. He reflects on the anxiety that often underlies entrepreneurship, the myth that success lies “on the other side” of an exit, and how maturity, focus, and balance have reshaped his leadership today.
Note, this podcast features real entrepreneurs sharing real challenges and solutions. No pitches, no sales - just honest conversations about the moments that shape successful businesses.
Aaron: Tell me a bit about your story, your entrepreneurial journey. I know you came from an entrepreneurial family, right?
Andy: Yeah. My dad was actually an entrepreneur. It was up and down. I grew up wanting to be an entrepreneur. Yeah. I remember actually selling stuff around the house to guess that would come into that house and always knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur and so when I realized that engineering was not the path for me, I was actually.
I actually studied electrical engineering. I realized that wasn't my passion and I wasn't necessarily world class at it. Decided to go to business school. At business school. That's where I ran into a professor sitting in the, and I was sitting in the back of the room and he was talking about his research.
Aaron: Yeah,
Andy: I was pretty curious whether or not he had thought about commercializing that research. And so I approached them after class. Said, Hey, have you thought about commercializing research? He said, no. I said, how about I commercialize research?
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: And naively decided to build a business around it.
And this was in the.com boom. And raised a little bit of capital.
Aaron: You founded in 1999, is that right?
Andy: Founded in 1999. Yeah. Yeah. And one thing they didn't teach you in business school is how to be an entrepreneur and really how to sell. I raised a little bit of money and immediately realized, like I was in over my head.
We built a product that nobody wanted to buy, and we burned a lot of cash.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: And realized really that the unlock there was you have to learn how to sell, selling everybody from employees to customers and so forth. So I picked up every book I could find on cold calling back then.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: And learned how to.
To sell and we were able to start realizing, like talking to customers was really important to crafting the product. And eventually we were able to turn it profitable and eventually saw it in 2004. So that was the process of working tirelessly and not realizing that you've got to get into the weeds of talking to customers and really figuring out what it is you're trying to bring value to.
Yeah.
Aaron: I'm curious about a few things I've heard you describe selling your family's furnishings before.
Andy: Oh, yeah.
Aaron: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm curious, did you actually sell them? Did people leave with things?
Andy: Yes, I was able to sell some, yeah. But it wasn't furniture. It ended up being like some gadgets Okay.
That nobody really cared about. But yeah, I had pricing on all kinds of different things around the house and was always looking for a way to make a buck.
Aaron: You said that the entrepreneurial environment in your family growing up was variable. There were some ups, there were some downs, yeah.
So you saw the highs and you saw the lows. Yeah. Before you ever started on your own journey, what did you bring to your entrepreneurial perspective right outta the gate that you learned from your family and having seen the lows? Why did you wanna do this? Because the lows are pretty low sometimes.
Andy: Yeah.
The part that was attractive about it was you could control your own destiny. I didn't really see my dad going in nine to five.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: It was, there was some variance there and some freedom in that. And I think that's the part that, that I picked up. I started working very early, so I started working full-time at 15.
Worked at large companies, at like at Boeing and Active Voice, but I went and worked at a startup. I was able to see from a bird's eye view, like what was. Wrong with a company. Oh yeah. And I thought I could probably do this better than how they're running this company. And that gave me the inspiration to go start my own.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: And then I realized, hey, it's not that easy looking front from another another seat in the house. Yeah.
Aaron: Yeah. And I've heard you talk about. Cold calling and frame it in. What I find to be a really helpful way that it's a numbers game. Yeah. You just need to talk to enough people. Yeah.
And you'll find the yes among the nos.
And you just have to keep going. You mentioned that was the unlock for you with net conversions.
Andy: Yep.
Aaron: What changes did you make? I know that it was talking with people. Did you change the product so that it was more attractive as well? What was the trajectory of the company?
And I know you exited. How did that turn out?
Andy: When we built the product, we assumed that, that assumption is always a funny one because you really don't know, right? Unless you talk to people. And we assumed that people would buy the product that we built. Essentially, it was a way to help increase conversions on retail websites.
It was a black box. We'd go out and sell and nobody wanted it. We didn't really know why. The unlock for us was really understanding the pain point for the retailers. How are we actually addressing that? And what we realized was the product that we were selling, number one, wasn't really understandable.
And number two didn't address an immediate pain point. It turned out that we actually could dumb down the product and then it would sell. So we ended up changing it into a product that would track. How people were navigating through a website and find out where people were getting stuck. That was interesting because they spent a lot of dollars trying to optimize their website and flying blind.
So our product started really catching fire and we were able to turn it profitable. And there was a local company called a Equiv that eventually sold to, to, to Microsoft that it was a good match because they were doing media for agency work for a bunch of clients and they would drive traffic, but.
In order to optimize the outcomes they needed our service. So it was a pretty good match and pretty and a lucky outcome for us because we, not only were we able to get cash out a deal, we also got stock, which eventually turned out to be a really nice outcome.
Aaron: Yeah, that was a.
Big acquisition by Microsoft, right?
Andy: It was yeah.
Aaron: 6.3,
Andy: yes. Around there. 6.3, 6.6 billion. Yeah. That in, in of itself, was an un unbelievable journey because they went public during the boom. Yeah. And then during the crash, it crashed down to 50 to 60 cents a share, and then they sold for.
Close to $66 a share.
Aaron: That's incredible.
Andy: Yeah.
Aaron: For a lot of entrepreneurs, the exit is the holy grail. It's the thing they're thinking of when they found the company.
You exited very early in your career. In what way did the exit. Meet your expectations. How was it what you thought it was going to be and how was it not what you thought it was going to be?
Andy: I think my experience was, it's so funny in life, it's always grass is greener on the other side.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: You're slogging it out. You're like, oh man, if I could just sell this thing, it's gonna be amazing. And then you do sell, you're working and then you realize, wow, grass is greener. If I could start my own company again.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: So then you repeat that cycle and we start the second company and the same thing happened there too. And I think the learning for me is. Not necessarily grass is greener, but where you're at in that moment is where it's most green.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: So I think this time around with leading a venture firm is just enjoying and embracing the day.
It's nice to be recognized and have a cash outcome after the acquisition, but the journey is really where it's at until you experience it. I think it really is. And so I'm glad that's how I'm living now.
Aaron: Is your attitude toward your daily life and how you experience things substantially different from what it was in your early twenties when you started net conversions?
Andy: Yeah, I think it's night and day. I think it's good in the sense that in my twenties I didn't have that many responsibilities. No, yeah, wife, no kids. I could just pour in a hundred hour weeks and it wouldn't really change, how I would live my life and so forth. So it was it that was a great time of a lot of high growth and learning and stress.
I know that I was very inefficient. Working hard hour weeks is not efficient. You're doing a lot of things. Yeah. The last
Aaron: 40 are not the best. Yeah.
Andy: That's right. Now, with family obligations, but also, a little bit wiser in terms of, hey, where do I spend my time and how do I actually work on the business and not be pulled in 20 directions?
Focus, I think is something I'm a lot better now than I was 20 years ago. Yeah. And I think I'm balanced now that I was that
Aaron: too. So for me. There's an element of being an entrepreneur that has an undercurrent of anxiety. Things are good right now, but I'm always looking for the thing that might not be good that could get you in the future and you're trying to anticipate and protect against and all that sort of thing.
Given your family history, did you come to entrepreneurship? With a undercurrent of anxiety. And did that change when you exited?
Andy: I don't know if I've ever encountered a time when there's no challenges. If it's going well, when is the rug get pulled out? And if it's going bad am I ever gonna get out of this?
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: Because I, I feel like every company has gotten kind of the Death Valley ex experience.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: The process now is along the lines of how do I. Actually work on myself such that I can handle these situations. And be thoughtful about it. It's almost like just being more aware of your emotions and where you're at personally and realizing this is an experience that's gonna challenge and make.
Me a better person. And with that sort of perspective, I think it's a lot easier to deal with the undercurrent the challenge that's underneath everything. It's almost like a choice too, because I do think, as entrepreneurs, we can get into our heads and you can get into a bad space very quickly.
And so the choice of Hey I'm viewing this as a human experience where I'm being challenged. There's nothing in life that's worth getting unless you're pushed and challenged and there's a little bit of a trophy is not a good, great word for it, but there is this kind of Hey there, whatever the outcome is, like it is what it is, but this moment here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna tackle it.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: Yeah.
Aaron: Before we continue, I want to tell you about the community that made this podcast possible. The Seattle chapter of eo. That's. Entrepreneurs organization. It's not networking, it's not selling to each other. It's real entrepreneurs sharing real challenges and solutions.
Andy: If you have a business that does at least a million a year in revenue and you're curious about joining a community that gets what you're going through, check out EOCF.
Aaron: You're famous in EO for your zest for life. You are when we have conferences. Last one to go to bed. You've been playing poker for three or four hours and it's been a really intense, really fun game. But you'll also be one of the first up to take a run with everybody else at the conference as well. Did that zest for Life come from those early entrepreneurial experiences and realizing that I need to savor every moment, or was that always there?
Andy: When I started working at 15, I realized like I had a unique skill and I don't even know if it's a skill anymore because I'm trying to sleep more, but I didn't need too much sleep.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: And so that allowed me to still operate pretty efficiently in the mornings. I think you put it well, is embracing life.
I tend to say yes more often than no. The serendipity of that. Is really powerful. It's an oxymoron to say, Hey, you gotta stay focused, but also. The, there is this serendipity ego and you say, Hey, I'm gonna hang out poker, or I'm gonna hang out for a couple of drinks. And it's those moments where you're able to get a little bit deeper with other folks, you're able to connect.
Whereas if you said, no, I'm gonna go to sleep early you just miss out on those unique moments. And I've had some incredible relationships and friendships because of that. I wasn't really a morning person. So the mornings really actually started early last year. Reading a book called The 5:00 AM Club.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: I said I'll give that a shot and one year turned into now two years. So I'm really enjoying that. I feel like there's this luxury of. Of being able to reflect.
Aaron: I agree. It feels like stolen time.
Andy: Yes. Yeah. I'm like, where was this? I wish I did it a lot longer.
Aaron: Yeah, exactly. So after net conversions.
Andy: Yeah.
Aaron: What was the next step? You intended to take some time off?
Andy: Yeah. At that point, was still no family and no obligations at that point. So it was like, Hey, let's take a year off and travel the world. It was one month. And what I've realized is in retrospect is it's easy to start companies, very hard exit.
So I probably should have taken the full year, but started a new company a month after and did some things differently the second time around. It was in the TV space.
It was a longer journey. A lot of twists and turns. We had acquisition offers early. I didn't need the cash, so we said no.
Took on venture capital and ended up being a nine, 10 year journey before selling that to Visio.
Aaron: Yeah. I was reading a little bit about, this is buddy tv.
Andy: Yes. Yeah.
Aaron: So acquisition offers early and also along the midpoint. So you had lots of ups and downs.
Andy: It was a fascinating time.
The journey's never a straight line. There's the mobile revolution dramatically changed our advertising business. And then there is the social side and then. Smart TVs and content moving away from cable. Like it was a lot of changes very quickly.
Aaron: Alright, so first two companies, two strong exits.
Andy: Yeah.
Aaron: What, if anything, did you do differently in the second exit from the first?
Andy: A couple of really important things. One, one was. Working on the right things. First time entrepreneurs spend 80% of the time building product. 20% on go to market. Second time entrepreneurs spend 20% on product and 80% on go to market.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: And I realized that's the lifeblood of a company is you've. Got to build a very strong muscle for sales and marketing, and it's a great way to really get insight into where you should take the company. The closer you are to the customer the better.
Rather than locking yourself into an office and be in the, CEO of strategy.
It's better just, yeah. Always be out there talking. With customers, I was a little bit more willing to hire staffing to take away some of the things that I wasn't very good at.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: Whereas before I was like trying to save every penny and do everything myself. And then the last one I think is being a lot more intentional about culture First company less focused on it.
And so the culture kind of just took a life of its own second being more more intentional about it and now being very intentional and also working with my companies, talking about. Culture because ultimately culture is what's. One of the largest differentiators, one of the biggest moats that you can build in business.
Aaron: And so now you are managing partner of Unlock Venture Partners, is that right? Yes,
Andy: that's right. That's right.
Aaron: And you've been doing that for the last decade or so, is that right?
Andy: Yes, 17. So yeah almost nine. Nine years. Yeah.
Aaron: Yeah. How did you come to venture investing and also this very interesting space in venture where you are your seed stage, right?
Andy: Yep. After my first acquisition, I, we, I had some angel investors that invested in my first company and I got to know them pretty well. Yeah. So I was always fascinated with angel investing what that really was. And so in 2005 decided that to dive deep in, in angel investing. Over the course of 10 years, ended up investing in 95 plus companies and I loved it.
The energy from meeting with entrepreneurs was amazing. Fed my a DD as well, just yeah, tell me about the business. And it's just like totally different businesses than I'm used to and learning from really sharp folks. And it was actually profitable as well. And after learning some good lessons and.
And also some good wins, and 17 decided Hey, I would love to do this full-time and turn it into an institutional fund. That's really what led to starting the firm and the premise of the firm is I wanna build a venture firm that I would wanna work with where different in a variety of ways, where entrepreneurs at heart were blank sheet entrepreneurs as well.
So early stage is near and dear to our heart, and
Aaron: yeah.
Andy: Whether or not we invest, we always want to see how can we help entrepreneurs achieve their dreams. If it's not money, it's at least a connection or a conversation or some way that we could be helpful.
Aaron: Yeah. So had you invested in 95 companies before you started unlock?
Andy: Yeah.
Aaron: So you'd done the job before you started the firm to do the job?
Andy: Yeah. Yeah, totally.
Aaron: What are the different types of investment that an entrepreneur should take on and what should an entrepreneur look for? When they go to raise money,
Andy: there's some misperceptions on fundraising, and a lot of it's because of what you read in the press, right?
Oh, this company raised 2 million or $3 million, but there's no real context around why they raised the capital or why the investors invested. The key thing is investors are partners. Once they're on your cap table, it's not like you can just kick 'em off,
Aaron: right?
Andy: It's like a marriage too, so you're contractually bind, and so if you have the wrong partners, it could.
Really make life challenging. I've had those stories too. Yeah. So one is find partners really in the business that really care about the mission and vision and alignment and culture and so forth. And then I would really try to make sure that there's alignment in terms of what kind of outcomes financially.
Are the investors looking at, and this is where I think there's another misperception on venture capital. 'cause 99% of the companies shouldn't take venture ever. Venture is a very unique asset class.
It's one where you as an entrepreneur need to realize you need to shoot for the stars. It's not to get as profitable as you can, as fast as you can.
That's actually almost antithetical to venture ventures. I'm trying to get you to grow very quickly, smartly, but I want you to get to a series A for another check, and then series A to series B, another check, and then I want you to go IPO or sell for a large sum and for the entrepreneur, like you're selling a good chunk of the of the company.
So you need to be aligned there to want to go that route. Most companies can do really well without venture capital, right? And you can raise money from friends and family. You can raise money from. Family offices, different folks with different kind of goals and objectives on the financial returns.
Aaron: Are there particular market segments that you're focused on for investment?
Andy: Yeah. When we started in 2017, it was very focused on AI and data. In the last couple of years, we've also branched into robotics space and defense as well. Generally speaking, we. Really focus on the entrepreneur, and then we wanna make sure the space is sufficiently large or the town is sufficiently large that.
It's an attractive market to be in and we something that we can be helpful in. It's a really exciting time right now. So
Aaron: what makes this a particularly exciting time?
Andy: A couple of things. Entrepreneurs now can do a lot with a lot less capital. You can build these companies with small teams, and I think we're not far away from a two, three person team building.
A billion dollar business. There's just so many amazing tools out there that you can build product even without a technical degree. So that means a lot more shots on goal for entrepreneurs and a lot more opportunity for us, this venture guys, to find, the next compelling company.
There's just a lot more opportunity. I do think there's these. Big mega trends. And we're in the midst of a big mega trend in space AI and robotics. If you are to imagine 10 years from now, like I don't think it takes a futurist or anybody to say that our lives are gonna be dramatically changed with, with the advancement of those three.
Aaron: More so than anytime in my life. I find it challenging to project forward five or 10 years and try to accurately think about and conceptualize what will be possible. Will be happening.
The degrees of freedom are so broad.
Andy: Yes. It's
Aaron: just hard to know.
Given the shift, given the fact that entrepreneurs can do so much more with fewer resources and that you don't necessarily have to have the same technical skills that you did to start even a tech company, how has that changed what you look for? Your founders,
Andy: let's just say even five years back, there were entrepreneurs that would come and pitch you with a PowerPoint deck, maybe what I call design partner side and so forth, and be able to raise capital on that.
I think the bar for. Institutional capital, not necessarily friends and family. Friends and family don't look at a lot of deals. They're investing because they love you.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: But for institutional guys that look at a lot of deals, the bar is higher. If an entrepreneur comes and says, Hey, I've just got a PowerPoint deck, unless they're like a three time entrepreneur or somebody I've worked with in the past, it's very difficult to raise capital because I look at 'em in the eye and say.
You could actually build this right now without my money. So why isn't the product already out there? Why don't you already have revenue? And so that's the bar now for early stage investing is the entrepreneurs are really obsessed. They're building product. They can five code, they can talk to customers, they can get their first few contractors with revenue.
And that, that I would say is the biggest change, is like the bar's just high.
Aaron: Has the changed environment also changed your sense of the time horizon? For next round of funding and maybe even ultimately liquidity event. Has that become compressed as well?
Andy: A lot of entrepreneurs want to do pattern matching.
I do too. So pattern matching, five years ago is, hey, if you can go from series C to series A, try to get about 3 million in a RR. And you know you're in good shape. But now I would say. The time is compressed because quality of the revenue matters and the quality of the revenue is how fast are you growing.
So if you get to 3 million in a RR in three months, it's very different from 3 million in a RR in five years, right? Where is that revenue coming from? Is it from companies that have deep pockets and can really start spending with you? And you've got these anchor names. It's like building a mall. You want Nordstrom's to be there, not Podunk.
Toys. If you have these anchor tenants, it pulls more business a lot easier. People are willing to do less diligence 'cause they're like, oh, okay. American Express is a customer. I think you can actually go for the quality of revenue. And if you are able to do that quickly you're timelines are gonna compress quite a bit.
Aaron: So I think about your professional history, two companies, two exits now, successful venture fund. What do you see that other people miss? That enables you to be successful.
Andy: I don't know if people miss it. It's where you focus on. And so what I've realized in our venture investing, there's a fair amount of luck too.
Where we've been able to find a edge is evaluating the entrepreneur and the management team. We have a quantitative way of doing it, and we also have a qualitative way of doing it. I think that's the biggest signal. To success versus our ability to really analyze business because it's still very early.
It's not private equity where you have a lot of history. We're probably better at the entrepreneur evaluation. There are a bunch of firms that are very successful at what I call thesis driven investing, right? Hey, we're all about robotics and boom, we're gonna do that. And so Seattle and LA are really interesting areas that are underserved.
So there's an opportunity to find great entrepreneurs that, that we just had have access to. We can diligence. Entrepreneurs faster and better than most.
Aaron: What are you looking for in entrepreneurs?
Andy: One of the critical things that we wanna find out is motivation. Being an entrepreneur, myself and yourself included, it's not easy there.
There are easier ways to make money,
Aaron: right?
Andy: So if you are all about the money, the famous last words is, my opportunity cost is too high. So there. They're six months in, it's not going well particularly well. And I'm like, Hey, just stick through it. You're learning a lot, you're gonna figure this thing out.
But they're like, Hey, my buddies at Goldman are making X I'm out. So I wanna know why they're doing it. Is this their life's mission? Is there something beyond money that's striving them? And that's really where I think you're gonna find an edge. We have a company that's doing well, it's called Possible Finance.
We're trying to make it easier and more accessible for folks that take small dollar loans that are not egregious. It's a very purpose-driven company and they want to make a dent. I think those things matter. So that would be one is really trying to identify motivation. It also drives two, which I call kind of obsession as well, and obsession.
It can be a bad thing, but I, what I'm looking for is art. Do you get energy out of. The business. If you're going home and you're like, immediately I need to grab a bottle of wine and I need a Netflix chill you're gonna burn out. I enjoy reading The Economist or TechCrunch or whatever that's how I wind down.
I, that's right. I love that. It's like a hobby. So like it gives you an edge as an entrepreneur if you truly are obsessed, you're trying to figure out the puzzle. In your head. And so those are things that we're looking for. I would say grit. Like how do you handle rejection?
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: So how do you handle uncomfortableness? And another one that I think is really important is what I call blow up risk. You have a partner in the business, you guys don't know each other well.
Once you run through the fire, is one gonna. Just fall off, or there's just gonna be a huge blow up between the two.
I'm not a relationship expert, but like I, I do care about does a spouse support you?
Do they understand the journey that you're gonna be on? Do they had, have they had risk in their life? I've had. Companies blow up because the spouse is like, Hey, you need to get a real job.
That's the end of it.
Aaron: Yeah. For myself, I can't imagine being anything but an entrepreneur, but it's the thing that I have to be
Yeah. It was so uncomfortable to be anything else.
And I know lots and lots of entrepreneurs who are like that. Do you like that characteristic in founders, someone who.
They have to work for themselves. It's the only thing they could do. Is that positive or negative?
Andy: That's right. I think that is something that I wanna see in somebody, like they're built to be an entrepreneur.
Yeah. They've got the DNA and not everybody's built to be an entrepreneur. So yeah, the challenge is just this notion of self-awareness too.
Aaron: Sure.
Andy: Where am I weak at? Where am I good at? Like, how do I come up with solutions to these challenges in a process oriented way? The reason I bring this up is a lot of people think that they're entrepreneurs and wanna be an entrepreneur.
And they're like a dreamer of an entrepreneur. And then when you get down to pull below the surface a little bit, they're like, Hey, I wanna build a billion dollar company.
And then I'm like, okay, let's talk about how do you get there?
And there's not enough depth there. That's the part where I think is the challenge is entrepreneurs are glorified, but how the sausage is made is a lot of time is ignored. And that's where I really wanna focus. It's the process is actually the most important.
The journey is the most important. What are you doing every day to give yourself a shot at that outcome versus I just dream about the outcome and I dream about, being a Forbes magazine and so forth.
Aaron: I think it's a lot like fundraising, right? The fundraising event is glorified and the outcome for an entrepreneur is glorified.
Andy: That's right.
Aaron: But everything else is actually the important stuff.
Andy: And there's very few articles about like how difficult. It is to actually stay in the process and
Aaron: yeah.
Andy: Grind.
Aaron: So you are a 23 year member of eo. What brought you to eo?
Andy: Honestly, it was people that are respected that were in in eo.
That, and relationships that brought me into eo and I didn't really have anything other than that. I was like, Hey, these guys. Cool. And I wouldn't mind hanging out with them more.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: And they think it's cool. So okay, like I'll give it a shot. And so once, once I dove in and saw what it was, it's the easiest check that I write now, so it's just,
Aaron: yeah.
Andy: EO for life.
Aaron: Alright, so you dove in, you saw what it was. What has EO been for you?
Andy: Life is generally, if you're not intentional about it, pretty lonely. EO for me is is an outlet to do life together with people who are similar and perspective and optimism and people who have your back.
So it's. A community that you can identify with. Being an entrepreneur is even more isolating than people realize because number one, like in, in the US most people don't have deep friendships, but imagine being an entrepreneur, it's even more long. People just don't really get what you're going through.
Yeah. That's why eos been a. Kind of a godsend.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: Yeah.
Aaron: How has EO changed you or how have you changed through your time in eo?
Andy: I think the big piece for me is just realizing like the issues I'm facing, everybody's had some semblance of similar experiences, and just that by itself is just very calming, just.
Dude, this is not, I'm not, this is not a super unique problem that I'm facing.
Aaron: Sure.
Andy: And I can get through this. There are peaks and valleys. There's times when I'm at peak where I'm like, man, things are going really well and I have nobody really to celebrate it with.
Aaron: Yeah,
Andy: you're do live together, forum mates.
It's fun to celebrate with 'em and I really enjoy celebrating their successes. And then the values are really important where, send a text message and say, Hey. I'm going through this and everybody's Hey let's do a, emergency meetup at this spot. And that comes together, is quite unique and it's like smoothing out.
Life.
Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. Almost everyone else I know in eo and this was true for myself as well as I came into eo, I, came to my first forum and I thought all these other people are gonna be much more successful in me. I'm the only one who feels like I don't have any idea what I'm doing. In some situation. And then I found out very quickly, oh no, everyone feels this.
Andy: Yeah.
Aaron: You've achieved so much. Is that something that you still experience or you've put that to bed?
Andy: I think it comes out in different. Ways for me, definitely this notion of the screws are gonna fall off.
Like I'm not gonna be able to get through it. Yeah. So like those kinds of things will come up. VC is an interesting business, right? There are the top VCs and I, I aspire to be one of the top VCs and I'm not, I've got a lot to learn to get there. Potential is there to get there.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: But I don't know.
So like that is the syndrome that I have is I have to show this notion of I can add value to our portfolio companies. Maybe I am, maybe I'm not.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: I'm gonna deliver returns to our LPs. Maybe maybe not. I believe, like I can play at the top levels. But I don't know if I can or not.
Yeah. So those are all open questions and I have to live in that kind of ambiguity.
Aaron: As you reflect on the last 23 years, how might your career have been different if you weren't in eo, or how might your life had been different?
Andy: I've grown a lot as an individual and a variety of things outside of business too.
I've had some health scares as well. You are a sum of who you hang out with. Yeah. And so I've been fortunate that there's been some really. I would say passionate health guys and gals in my forums and have really transformed how I think about health and how I prioritize it.
And so now I feel, strong and healthy and have good rhythms there. And that's entirely due to a product of being with them. And I think if I didn't have EO. I might have arrived at that, but it would not have been a, as straight of a line as EO has been. I think relationships with my kids too, like early on I, I didn't have a family, but I always listened to all this amazing experiences around kids and so forth, and a lot of it went one year and out the other.
But once I started having them dramatically changed my perspective on parenting and how to. Hold dear these these moments. Yeah. And I don't think I would've had that sort of insight or perspective without eo.
Aaron: Yeah. You have two kids.
Andy: Two kids.
Aaron: Yeah. If you could ensure that your kids had one characteristic, they may have others, but you can ensure that one is baked in.
Andy: Yeah.
Aaron: What's the characteristic?
Andy: I'm always like. I can't teach 'em 10 lessons and I have to model it too.
Aaron: Yeah.
Andy: I would be most proud if they were extremely kind. So everybody that they come in contact with, there's a kindness to 'em and a humanness to the connection. That would be amazing.
And I hope I model it well for 'em too.
Aaron: That's a great answer. I've really enjoyed talking with you.
Aaron: great. Thank you for taking the time.