Join host Aaron Burnett as he sits down with Lisbet Halvorsen, founder of Ravishing Radish Catering Company, to talk about learning to lead, the courage to face personal challenges, and how joining a community of entrepreneurs didn't just change her business—it saved it.
Note, this podcast features real entrepreneurs sharing real challenges and solutions. No pitches, no sales - just honest conversations about the moments that shape successful businesses.
Building Ravishing Radish Catering
Aaron Burnett: Tell me your story. Tell me your entrepreneurial journey.
Lisbet Halvorsen: I started the Radish in 1993. Ravishing Radish was the name I chose just to be the placeholder name. And 33 years later, it's still the name. I thought it was my joke name, and it stuck. I'd be driving the vans downtown, and people would see it, and you could see them mouthing out "ravishing radish catering." And so I thought, okay, it makes people smile. So yeah, we kept the name.
It was just me selling, doing the actual events itself, the cleanup. And then I started getting some friends involved to help. And then it's grown over the years and now we've got 15 people that are relatively full-time. And then we've got a whole staff of about 75 that work the events when we have them.
Aaron Burnett: And what kind of events can you do?
Lisbet Halvorsen: A little bit of everything. We love weddings, so we've become known as the wedding caterer. But after COVID, we've been trying to shift into more corporate business to round things out since the world is so weird right now with everything.
We really love to do large full-scale galas and auctions and openings and product launches and things like that. But we do a little bit of everything depending on the time of year. Ravishing Radish is a place where we hope it's going to be as much fun to plan the party as it is to have the party itself, because we really enjoy the process of finding out what our clients want and need and are afraid of. I always try to ask the clients, "What are you afraid of?" Because some people are like, "I'm scared of bar lines," or "I just don't want to run out of food," or "I'm scared that you're going to be late." So we just like to know that upfront so we can mitigate anything that might make them stressed out.
Because I think a stressed-out client, if they're stressed out from the planning process or lose confidence, then the day of the event, they're not their best selves. So I think giving people the confidence that we can do it, and we do have a lot of experience and lots of systems in place to make most things run smoothly.
Our food is amazing. I think I'm always surprised by how people love our food, because our food is just the way we make the food. And recently we had an event where a friend texted me and his wife is a mucky-muck in the Washington State government. They're at the event. And I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I wish I had gone, I would if I'd known they were going to be there." And he's like, "Why would you serve the good food then?" And I'm like, "No, I guess he's like the food's excellent. Don't worry." So I was like, okay, we did send the good food.
So I think it's just really consistent. Our level of service is really consistent. We don't use any of those rentable people, like the temporary workers. They're all radish employees. That giving you the confidence that we can do it is my biggest goal, because I know that once we get there, we'll do a great job.
Aaron Burnett: You do have a distinctive style.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah, I think that's true. And it's funny because corporate, we're doing a lot more corporate business now, and we were trying to figure out what that looks like compared to what we normally do for these fancy weddings or these really over-the-top galas and stuff. And I think that I'm like, it doesn't have to be different. The food's obviously not going to be different; it might be different selections, but the food's going to have to be the same yummy, delicious, fabulous food.
Aaron Burnett: And what a treat to have something more beautiful in a corporate setting as well.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah. We were just doing something over at Amazon, and it was like a breakfast. It wasn't very fancy; it was just like some breakfast things that you'd have. But the girls that came in were taking pictures of it. I'm like, taking pictures of the buffet at a breakfast, a corporate breakfast. And it made me really happy because I was like, it looked really nice and I don't know what they're used to, but it was something that was more special than what they're used to. So that was really fun.
What Makes Ravishing Radish Different
Aaron Burnett: What makes Ravishing Radish different or distinctive from other catering companies in the area?
Lisbet Halvorsen: I think the staff really cares. I know that everyone probably thinks that their staff cares, but mine are just like up at night worrying about things that I don't have to worry about, which is nice. Like our operations team is like behind the scenes, doing crazy unloads of vans at night, at midnight, and then shifting them over the next day. And our chefs are just dealing with vendor issues ever since COVID. We've had a lot of vendors that are not as reliable as they have been. So there's been chasing down sea bass and just all the different things.
I know the food's amazing. We try to keep it very restaurant-style food. So it's not like your traditional catering fare. The biggest compliment I heard recently was at a wedding, and they're like, "This doesn't taste like wedding food." I was like, "Thank you." And I knew exactly what that meant, and it was a big compliment. Because it's got a bad rap in the food industry. We try to keep food, you know, what you'd wanna have if you went out for a fine dining experience.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah. I can attest to that. You've catered a couple of our events. And the difference is it's food you actually want to eat, not food you need to get through at the event.
Lisbet Halvorsen: And that's not nerve-wracking at all, catering for you because you're a foodie.
Aaron Burnett: Thank you, foodie. And I love your food.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Thank you.
Joining EO and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
Aaron Burnett: What brought you to EO?
Lisbet Halvorsen: I've been in EO for I think about eight or nine years, and I had a couple of friends that were in it. They both just kept on encouraging me, and it sounded like I didn't belong in that group, because these friends had really successful, bigger companies than mine. And I don't know, I just finally just took the leap. I think I went to an event where they had an introduction to the people in EO, and it seemed like at that time, I could really just use the support, and I wasn't even sure if I'd get accepted. They have the interview process where you're sitting there looking at the big board of people, and I was terrified, but they let me in, and I've been in there happily since. I was in your forum first, and now I'm in my second forum.
I've just gained so much from just the people I've met and mostly just the confidence that I am doing some things right, which is always a bonus, right? Because I felt like really alone. Like I was just kinda out there floundering. And I think one of the funniest things is in our, I think it was our forum, everyone was talking about KPIs, and I was like, "KPIs?" And then at the break, I went in the bathroom and Googled KPIs, and I was like, "Oh, good lord, it's just key performance indicators. That's not that tough." I'm like, "It's goals. We have those." And I think a lot of that kind of stuff just made sense to me after I was a little bit less fearful of the whole process and everybody's in the same boat.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah. I suspect that the prevalence of imposter syndrome, particularly for earlier EO members, maybe for tenured members as well, is probably approaching a hundred percent.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah.
Aaron Burnett: Which is reassuring in its own right?
Lisbet Halvorsen: It's my new forum too. I had known some of these people just on the surface. And when I joined that forum, I was like, "Oh, here we go again. Starting all over again." And it's been really lovely just getting to know them and realizing the same thing that no matter what, we all have the same problems, no matter how big our companies are or what we do.
Most Memorable Events
Aaron Burnett: Jumping back to Ravishing Radish, I'm curious about a couple of things. Most memorable event you've ever catered, either because it was fantastic or because it was just memorable?
Lisbet Halvorsen: I feel like the last event we did was really memorable. It was at Ell Reserve on Bainbridge Island, where I live. And it's beautiful, it's like the prettiest wedding I think I've ever catered. Because it was just on this beautiful estate, and it's one of the first times I've ever left after the wedding, not having a lot of stuff in my mind to change or fix, or I would've done this differently. So it was a beautiful feeling. The team just did everything, which I don't think has ever happened, actually. It was nice because it was one that we really focused on, and the planner was great, and the clients were wonderfu,l and it was just a really, it was probably my favorite event.
We got to cater for Hillary Clinton for the Clinton Foundation once. So that was a lot of fun, and we were all big fans. Her table, we did wine service, so I grabbed the bottles of wine. I'm doing her table. So I took them out, and then I realized I had one red and one white, and she asked for white wine, and it was served with my left hand, and I'm like, "Oh God, don't spill wine on Hillary Clinton's." I'm pouring and shaking, and she's oblivious to my nervous breakdown. But I poured her wine, and it was great, and she took a picture with us at the end, and the team was just over the moon about that.
Personal Transformation Through EO
Aaron Burnett: How is Ravishing Radish different today than when you joined EO?
Lisbet Halvorsen: I think I'm a better leader. I think I was shying away from that word because it just seems like something I wasn't comfortable with or didn't think I was a leader. I'm like, I own a company, I own a catering company. I do that and I run around with trucks and food all the time. It made me slow down and realize I have a role to play and my role is important that I need to keep the company going or also we're not going to have a company to go to.
I think it made me take a step back and look at the bigger picture of what the company's all about and what makes it successful. And then learning from other people's experiences on good and terrible things that have happened to other people, learning from them so I don't have to go through it myself.
Aaron Burnett: I know you mentioned that you're a better leader. How are you different though? Maybe even more personally?
Lisbet Halvorsen: Realizing how much pressure I'm under and how much, I think I just was always just doing it. I had no one to compare it to, so I was just doing what I do and I didn't realize how much stress I was under. So I think having peers that you can look to and learn from and just realize how big of a job this is, let me slow down.
I think you were privy to me deciding not to drink anymore. That was probably one of my biggest decisions six, over six and a half years ago, or about six years ago. I just realized that I was using that as a kind of a way to deal with the stress. And I think that was something I wouldn't have noticed if I hadn't been sitting down for a few hours every month just really looking inward. And I'm proud of that. Because I think that's just a huge thing to just admit, especially when you're supposed to be trying to be strong and I'm in a party industry. I throw parties for a living and decide not to drink is a big deal. But it's been really fun and it's been one of the best things I've ever done.
I think I really credit EO for that because my forum was the first people I ever even mentioned it to. So I think that even before my family, I was just like, "I think I'm going to try this." And I think everyone was so supportive and no one was like, I don't know, there's just a lot of support there and love. So I think that made me feel like I could do that. So that's probably the biggest change. And then just my confidence in general and just being in a podcast. I would never have said yes to this several years ago, so there's that.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah. Before we continue, I want to tell you about the community that made this podcast possible. EO Seattle chapter of Entrepreneurs Organization. It's not networking, it's not selling to each other. It's real entrepreneurs sharing real challenges and solutions. If you have a business that does at least a million a year in revenue and you're curious about joining a community that gets what you're going through, check out EOCCF. Having known you for several years, I can tell you that you seem much calmer, much more assured.
Lisbet Halvorsen: I have a hard time slowing down. So I think literally just sitting down for four hours or whatever the forum experience is just sitting there without your phone and without all the distractions and just looking inward and helping other people do the same thing, was really the start of me slowing down and being able to realize that if you don't sit still and listen you're not going to hear what's going on. That's part of what I love about EO. It just makes, I never have time to go. I don't think anyone ever wants to go to those meetings because you're just like, "I have 80,000 things to do." It's like working out or doing something that you should do. You never wish you hadn't done it afterwards.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah, I agree. I have the same experience quite often. I think I don't really have time for this. Not really sure what I'm going to get out of it today. I'm sometimes not sure in the moment what I'm getting out of it. It won't be until like two or three days later that something will pop up and I'll realize, "Oh, I heard something that's actually really valuable."
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah. Slowing down for me is really difficult to do. Even when I'm relaxing I'm doing something, I'm creating art or doing some sort of project around the house. I can't just sit there. So I think it's been really helpful for me just to start to learn how to sit with myself.
Building a Leadership Team and Core Values
Aaron Burnett: You also have a leadership team now? And as I recall, you didn't have a leadership team.
Lisbet Halvorsen: No, we do. So that's been really valuable in just selecting certain people outta the company to help me guide it. And I've learned different things about how to put one together and what kind of people should be on it, which is nice. Because you don't want everyone just to think like me. And you want people who have different opinions and perspectives on life.
Aaron Burnett: When you meet people, what do you want them to know about you?
Lisbet Halvorsen: That I am kind and smart and fun. Those are my core values. We worked on those during COVID when we were closed for 18 months. So I finally, and they're really simple and short and they don't have much depth necessarily, but they really do describe how we like to do things. It's like everyone, first of all, if you don't know what to do, just be kind. Just do that. And then usually things follow through and then being smart and strategic and doing a wedding. There's so many pieces to it. You have to really have your act together to pull all that off. Because there's just so many different dimensions and details that when you think about it too much it's almost discouraging, right? And being fun. Having fun, this is, I mean, we throw parties for a living. So I think sometimes we have to remember that this is a party. If we're not having fun, they're not going to have fun. Because we set the tone. If we're stressed out, then you know, that's going to make the client stressed out. Because they're going to wonder what's going on over there.
Aaron Burnett: I can imagine weddings could very easily be not at all fun.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah. And there's a lot of stress that's not related to the catering or the food, but family dynamics that have to be. So I try to remember that this isn't just about what we're seeing, there's probably a million things underneath that are happening that we're not aware of. So just trying to stay positive and being capable and something always goes wrong. So you have to be able to deal with that. And my brain likes that when something goes wrong, I look around and I'm like, "Okay, what can we make a table out of? What can we, what did I pass on the way here that I can get to do that?" So my brain just works well that way.
Surviving COVID with EO Support
Aaron Burnett: Yeah. I can see why you're so good at it. Can you imagine what your company would be like, what things would be like if you hadn't joined EO?
Lisbet Halvorsen: No. Especially, it could've been different. I'm not saying better or worse.
Aaron Burnett: Oh, it would be worse. Yeah. It would definitely be worse. I think, especially during COVID. I don't know if I would've gotten through COVID without the support of my forum and not just the emotional support and the love, but the information out there. I think you helped me with my PPP loan trying to figure out what the hell that even is and how do we get them and stuff. The resources I've learned about that I didn't know existed and just other members that have helped me out that someone's like "Oh there's this person, you should go talk to them. They've dealt with that." And I think that having that network has been huge. I don't know if it would be around, to be honest. Because I think that I might have just folded. Because we had someone else in our forum that was in the food industry at the same time, and so we had the same kind of thing going on exactly. And that helped realize I'm not the only one there because we were shut down and we could not work. And so that was something that's never happened before and hopefully will never happen again. And then the aftermath of coming back and the industry being so torn apart. There's another caterer in EO that I've become really close with that just because we do the same thing. So she's been really helpful on coming outta that whole dark time.
Post-COVID Industry Changes
Aaron Burnett: After the lockdown, to a greater or lesser extent, some people's ability to socialize atrophied. Significantly.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Mine. Yeah.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah. Mine too. I remember the first day of being back in touch with people in person that I was so exhausted at the end of the day.
Lisbet Halvorsen: It's exhausting. I don't know if it's because we got older, because we didn't get older that much. But it's definitely the just coming back out again. It's exhausting.
Aaron Burnett: Do you find that in social events you feel like people's abilities have resumed to normal? Or is there a shift in the dynamic? And this is purely out of curiosity.
Lisbet Halvorsen: I feel like it looks normal, but I think that everyone is dealing with it. I think that whenever I mention it to people, because I'm pretty open about it because I'm such a social person, but now I'm kinda like, I go to a party and I'm like, "Ugh." It's like I have to go find someone to talk to. And it's just, it's more work than it used to be. And I've talked to, I've mentioned that to people and everyone else agrees. So I think that everyone's out there just trying to make it look really fun. But it's a challenge I think.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah, I think it's true.
Lisbet Halvorsen: But people, especially after COVID was over, we had so many people that were so excited to have a party again, that we were just slammed and almost to the point of where we couldn't do it because we couldn't get food. Because there was like a shortage in all these different supply chains and we couldn't get certain things. So that was and even staff was difficult to find at that time. So I think they've come back to normal. I think, and some people just maybe realize they have more anxiety around being social than they like me. Maybe I didn't know I had as much as before when I had that time to myself at home.
Aaron Burnett: Sure. Have staff interactions changed? Have the nature of the staff you can hire changed?
Lisbet Halvorsen: I think a lot of people left the industry, our industry, like the food and beverage industry, a lot of people got out just because I think a lot of them realize that they didn't like it when they stopped. They're like, "Oh, I can do something else." Some people got retrained. But the ones that are working for us now, we have almost our entire original staff back, which I think is huge.
Aaron Burnett: That's amazing.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah. I mean like the core team is still there. One just put in her notice because she's busy with kids. I told her, I'm like, "You'll be back so it'll be fine." She's like, "Yeah, I will."
Aaron Burnett: That's really impressive.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah, we've had a really, that's part of I think the longevity of our team. Like I have a salesperson that's been here for 26 years. Our chef was here 18 years and it becomes it's part of their identity. I think working for the radish, because we call ourself radishes. So the radishes are pretty serious about being radishes.
Aaron Burnett: That's nice. Do you know Carmine White? He's got a cleaning business. So I interviewed him. He was the last interview and he was describing something similar. That all of their employees are their employees. And they have been for a long time. And they get to know the houses they're cleaning and the people and all that sort of thing, which is part of the huge quality difference in what they do.
Lisbet Halvorsen: I think that's very true. And that our team knows each other how they work together. So we know that the strengths and people's. So that you can play to those things. Because some people are great that work for those companies, but you just don't know them. So you don't know what their strengths are. Because they're not one of you. And so I think that's one of our distinguishing things that we try to always use our own staff.
And the food's just, we try to work with the clients on what the constraints of their venue are. So if we're going to be like on a boat, we're not going to maybe do a lot of cooking when there's lift and space or so we design the menus to work around each specific venues, whatever they have going on there.
Aaron Burnett: Maybe won't be soup.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah, exactly. I made cioppino on a boat once and it was a sailboat and I had this giant thing of cioppino on and I was down there and then they started, it was a wedding. I'm like they're just going to be putting around this little boat. And they started sailing the boat. So the boat is listing and I'm holding onto the cioppino and it was not fun. I didn't lose any soup, but it was really stressful being down there in the bowels of a boat trying to cook on big dinner. So I think that was 30 years ago, I think. So I think I've learned it also.
Aaron Burnett: Memorable.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah. I think we do such a good job because I've done what not to do already. So I think, like my son's starting his own little agency right now and he's starting it from scratch and I'm just having so much fun like helping him trying to figure out like what an invoice should look like. And he sent it to me and I'm like, the first one that he was sending to a client was the invoice number was 001. And I'm like, "Oh, so sweetie, you're going to wanna put something in front of that number just so it looks like you've been doing this for years." And he's like, "Oh, good point." I'm like, "Just put your birthday in front of it and then put one." And he's like, "Oh, okay." So now it's 0226-1. So it's been really fun to do all the things I wish I had done, because when we started our, there was no ChatGPT, no one, there was no EO for me. So it was just a lot of learning by making mistakes, which, I'm not afraid of making mistakes because I think that's how you learn, but it's nice to make new ones though.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah. It's nice to make new ones though.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Oh yeah. Yeah. I think we're both really good at that.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah, exactly. What's Jack's agency?
Lisbet Halvorsen: It's called the Milky Way. His last name is Milky. He's building bots for people and doing, he's calling it vibe coding. It's like website building through, like Lovable with the app he likes to use. So he's been building and showing people how to do it so they can do it themselves. So he's been enjoying that and he's in San Francisco.
Aaron Burnett: Interesting. Yeah. Is he doing work with Agentic AI? So he's making agents.
Lisbet Halvorsen: I know that he just built our website out for the rads and so that was a big, a really fun experience. Because he knows more about it than I thought he did. It's been super fun. Just, he was in Thailand doing some work over there and so we're trying to figure out the 14 hour time difference. And so one of us was always exhausted, so now he is in San Francisco and it's nice to be on the same time zone. And I'm like, neither one of us is crabby or tired at the same time.
Aaron Burnett: I can totally relate to that. We had a period over the summer when Tessa was in Amsterdam, Willow was in Auckland, and then we were in Seattle and then we went to New Zealand. So we were all in New Zealand, but Tessa was however many hours and there was no point where we could be asleep and just totally relaxed knowing that she needed us.
Lisbet Halvorsen: That's an under, people underestimate how difficult that is. Time changes and stuff.
Aaron Burnett: Over time it tends to wear you up.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah. But it's been really fun to coach him through things and just talk through things. And I talk about a lot more businessy stuff than I ever have. Because he knows so much more about the business. And I think he's osmosis learned things throughout the years. Because I've been doing this for a long time. But I think he has more, it's got more, I don't know, oomph to it now that he's doing it.
Aaron Burnett: He seems pretty purely entrepreneurial just by disposition.
ADHD Diagnosis and Creating Systems
Lisbet Halvorsen: We're both for sure. We both have ADHD too, so I was diagnosed and he hasn't been, but we're both, he now, he just says, "Oh, it's our brains. That's not going to work." And this is, we just joke about that. And that's another thing I think I found out about myself like in the last four years is I got diagnosed with ADHD like after 50, which is, yeah. First I was like, "Oh my God, I could have run my life so differently if I'd known." And that was a huge growth point for me. Because I think now I'm not beating myself up over all the things I do wrong. I'm just like, "Oh, I just, I'm trying to make some tools so I'm not always losing my things."
Aaron Burnett: I understand that's quite common for women in particular after 50 to be diagnosed, that for some people it arises.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah. I think a lot of women in their fifties are going to therapy.
Aaron Burnett: Oh, so maybe it was there.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah. I told everyone that, like friends from college and friends from work and I'm like, "I have ADHD," and they're like, "Really? Oh, you do. That's so cute that you didn't know. Because we all knew."
And my husband was kinda the same way and stuff. And actually he didn't think I had it. Now he's learned more about it. He's like, "Oh," it's been really, I think, really a valuable thing for me to know about. And I think beat myself up less about it. Because it's just the way I am and it's less of a flaw, more of just a thing to work around.
Aaron Burnett: Tessa was diagnosed as well the summer before her freshman year of college. Because she came home and said, "I need to be assessed."
Lisbet Halvorsen: Wow. That's really healthy that she thought that through before she went to college.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah. It was really good. Claire knew much earlier. And I was resistant to Tessa being tested. I just thought, honestly if I'm be totally candid, she's quirky like me, and I thought, I recognize that brain. That makes total sense to me. I don't know that we need a label for that. And by extension, I don't know that I need a label. And so I was resistant and it was, as you said, it was liberating for Tessa to know.
Lisbet Halvorsen: It's been, yeah, it's huge. Just knowing that there's something different about my brain. That's something that I always thought that everyone has had their shit together and I'm like, I don't, and that's fine. But now I'm like, I do have my shit together. I just don't have the same brain that works like everybody else's. And there's so many of us, it's almost not even a big deal. And I think that particularly among entrepreneurs.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah it's a big thing. Because I think we that's part of why I like my job so much. Because I can put something down and start doing this and it's just always different and I like having all the different things coming at me and it's never boring.
Lisbet Halvorsen: I can't get fired.
Aaron Burnett: I like that too. It's really fun. I have all the information. I get to make the decisions and I can't get fired.
Lisbet Halvorsen: I know I have a lot of jobs before this. I was just, looking back, it's definitely the ADHD and just not wanting to do it. I was at McDonald's and I redesigned their drive through and got fired over it, and now they're using my system. I'm like, "This was my system. I thought about this in like the eighties." Because how they put you in the parking lot and bring your food out so the line's faster. That was me and I did that. And then they're like, "Where is everybody?" I'm like, "They're over in the parking lot, we're going to bring out the food." And they're like, "You, no." And then they didn't like it, and I was let go. Oh, whatever. I'm trying to create different systems. I like creating systems. I don't like following systems. So that's part of the problem. I'm really good at making up the idea behind it, but I'm not going to do that because my brain won't necessarily follow through.
Aaron Burnett: Yeah. I've talked to Tessa about this and acknowledged, if she's ADHD, then I'm, there's nothing wrong with that. But on the other hand, I feel and maybe this is my denial, I feel like through my life I just learned to create systems that work for me. And so my life works really well for me.
Lisbet Halvorsen: You have a very structured life though. You like things the way you know you like them, and you don't put yourself in situations where you're not in a place that you know you're going to function well in because you like to function well. I think so. I think you have a higher desire to function well than I do.
Aaron Burnett: Also my girls would tell you with some derision that everything in my life is automated. So everything's got a tracker on it. Everything that has to happen at a certain point is automated so that it doesn't rely on me remembering.
Lisbet Halvorsen: So you find the tools that work for you and yeah.
Aaron Burnett: And I work with people who are so organized and so systematic.
Lisbet Halvorsen: Yeah. With catering, you have to make sure that one linen not being there sounds silly, but you can't do it without that. There's a table without a cloth on it and these people have very high expectations of how things are going to look. So that's the stuff that really matters is the nitty gritty.
Aaron Burnett: I'm interested in your perspective on this. That stuff really matters foundationally. I don't know that magic comes from those things. Magic comes from being keenly aware of the relational aspects of an event like that or being highly attuned to what might be special or being really in touch with novelty. And all of those things go with the wiring of our brain.
Lisbet Halvorsen: But I think that you can't be in that place if you're not, if you have, if you're missing a linen.
Aaron Burnett: Absolutely. So you need both. You definitely need both. But I think that, like you always said, what's in your business? It's like bringing joy to people or bringing the unexpected. I think I stole that and I think that's something that you bring something extra to it. It's like just something that's unexpected, that's fun and you don't tell, have to tell them about everything that's coming. So they're happy and delighted, I think is what your word. Delighted joy.
Lisbet Halvorsen: It's a core value. So that was the thing I ripped off from you. So nice. Thank you EO.